City and County of San Francisco Thursday, October 28, 2010
supervisor mar: good morning. The need to and come to quarter.
This is the meeting for October
28, 2010, the meeting of the government on its end of oversight committee of the san francisco board of supervisors.
Our clerk -- I would also like
to thank the sfgtv staff for their great work in the city as well. could you please make any announcements?
>> please make sure to turn of cell phones and pagers. Completed speaker cards and copies of any documents to be included as part of the file should be submitted to the clerk. Items act upon today will appear
on the November 9 board of supervisors agenda unless otherwise stated.
supervisor mar: thank you, and we have three items on the agenda today.
Please call item 1.
>> item 1, motion directing the
budget and legislative analyst
to conduct three audits in
fiscal year 2010-2011.
supervisor mar: this item has
been to committee several times, so this is a report from the budget and legislative analyst' s office.
>> good morning . As you stated, we have had
several presentations on proposed audits for calendar year 2010.
so this motion is basically the result of the prior meeting.
At that meeting, I was requested to also meet with the controller'
s office and the department of human resources to speak specifically about the second audit, the one that had
mou provisions.
i did meet with them, and we
agreed to have a narrower scope
for this project at this time.
Looking specifically at the city' s implementation of a worker pays city-wide, they
identified that as two high risk areas that need would further review.
For the second audit on here, at this point, and narrowed the
scope to those pieces.
Supervisor mar: thank you.
Are there any questions or comments? Seeing none, let' s open up for public comment. Is there anyone from the public that would like to speak?
Seeing none, public comment is closed.
is there a motion on this item?
With recommendation, without objection. Thank you.
Could you please call item two?
>> item two, ordinance on many of the san francisco
administrative code to establish the city' s open data policy and require city departments to make appropriate data available to the public.
Supervisor mar: thank you, and
we have jason elliott from the mayor' s office. >> good morning. Thank you for having this hearing this morning.
We are discussing this morning a
proposed ordinance, but did of policy that would establish what already exists in the form of the executive director that the
mayor -- executive directive that the mayor issued about a
year ago whereby departments would be required to submit data
sets to an online landing pad, 311, where that data would be publicly accessible by anyone to develop applications, to see
what the city is doing, and generally promote transparency, accountability, and openness.
I would like to let jane speak more eloquently about how this
works and why we are doing it,
but before I do that, if I could read a couple of amendments into the record.
I believe you were given paper copies of this.
Ok, great, on page two, starting
with 11, section two from the
city departments required to
make available each city department, board, an agency shall make reasonable efforts to make available data sets under the department'
s control, provided however that such disclosures shall be consistent with the rules and standards
promulgated by the committee on information technology and with applicable laws including laws related to privacy.
If I could also be pleased on
page 3 beginning with line one,
did a policy, each plan shall include an accounting of public data sets under the control of
the department, and rules for including open data
requirements-applicable city contracts.
They evaluate the mayor' s feasibility of making city datasets pursuant to a generic license such as those offered by created commons, which could
grant a user the right to copy,
distribute, display, and create derivative works. Thank you for allowing me to do that.
>> find you, jason -- thank you,
jason.
i am with the department of technology.
I will be explaining briefly
what open date that is, the benefits, and what we have
accomplished to date, and a
quick summary of the legislation itself.
so what is open data?
Open date it is structured data.
Spreadsheets, a tabular form.
It is not.Pdf or word documents, and because of that,
it is a machine readable, and
that is an important part of it
here you can create applications and analysis out of it.
There is a lot you can do.
Open did it is also freely available to the public at no charge with very minimal restrictions.
It also respects existing
privacy and security laws that
are in place, whether local,
state, or federal, and it is really a proactive disclosure of
government information.
Departments and agencies are for
one actively putting structured machine-readable data out into the public.
so why is open did it important?
If improve transparency and accountability.
Journalists have access to more information.
Artists, technology community --
generally, anyone interested in government has structured information they can use for various reasons.
It also stimulates economic development. We have seen a number of
companies that have been
substantiated both here locally and elsewhere. An example I would like to
submit is a company in san diego on track to make $10 million in revenue by making sense of
department of labor information, so there it is a new emerging
space of opportunity.
It also fosters collaboration
between cities, state, and federal governments.
As an example, the department of technology worked with other
city -- cities to establish ways [No audio]
It also enhances civic participation. If people have more information, they can provide input and raise
awareness, and there is greater trust in government.
so what have we done to date? We have made a good foundation,
launched datasf.Org, which is a data catalog. Think of that as a yellow pages
for data in san francisco.
So far, we have 182 datasets, and I think that is a good start.
There is also a mechanism for
people to provide feedback.
Also, we have got really good
for dissipation. 27 departments have precipitated
willingly, and as you can see in
some of the letters of support, there is great value in sharing
data with the public .
As jason mentioned, the executive directive was issued
in October 2009 that kind of put a framework around this.
To date, we have over 50 applications that have been developed.
This is a quality of life issue
for people, and transit information is critical.
We also have a lot of 311 applications, so people see graffiti in their neighborhoods, there is different mechanisms for those people to interact with their city.
They can call, and they have many other options now.
I want to make it clear that the
city did not spend a dime on these applications.
They were developed by a third party. Sometimes hobbyists, sometimes for economic reasons, but the city does not pay for any of this.
Also, open date it is a growing movement.
-- open data is a growing movement.
It started with President Obama and his position on
transparency, and the federal government establishing a web
site called data.Gov.
In san francisco, we thought this was great.
We followed in their footsteps .
The U.K., and several other countries are doing this now. Australia.
The state of california is also
moving in this direction, and
several cities are as low, but we are definitely one of the pioneers and one of the leaders.
To give you a sense of what it
looks like, if you look to the
screen, and you will see that it
has got data sets there that
people can read and comment on.
you can get more information as to how to get that information.
I want to state that it is very easy for departments to use.
They just need to register on the website, fill out a form describing the data sets a bit, and they are gone, so they can
be done in about five minutes.
here is an example.
This is an iphone application
that riders of muni can use to know when the bus is coming next.
This is a family friendly application.
it is using red and hard
information, so if you are a
parent here, you can no what is
going on, where the nearest playground is, depending on where you are.
there are five applications to date, and they work in
washington, D.C., and any other state that has adopted the standard we have worked very
hard to establish, and there is a whole bunch more being created.
Again, this is kind of leveraging the creativity of our community.
in summary, the ordinance actually establishes a single
portal, datasf, and it institutionalizes the method for public feedback so people can give an idea of what they are looking for.
It also requires coit to deal with some of the technical
aspects of open data, such as setting technical standards, looking at whether we need to make improvements in the software contract, and also, it
looks to create a generic license so people are not
confused as to what the legal noose is around data. So that is my presentation.
if you have questions, I' m happy to -- [No audio]
Supervisor mar: I wanted to thank you.
It sounds like one of the amendments is to address privacy
concerns. I know that is something that people have raised when I talk to them about this.
Can you talk about how we are protecting people' s privacy while still being open and
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++ for ensuring that private information does not get released accidentally. The department of public works also works with the city attorney to make sure that there is nothing a fall, and last, the actual administrators of datasf
my guess is overall, there is no hit on the general fund, and this is promoting policies so
that san francisco can be a national leader of open
government and data, but what I
really like is how many of these
applications not just for the
iphone but for android phones and other things can make people'
s lives better from not
getting a street take it -- not
getting a ticket with there is street cleaning to the mom maps.
Even the crime statistics and data sets are really useful.
Another one that I found on the
web site, the -- on the web
site -- on the website was teh
sf trees application .
A lot of useful applications, especially the one about not getting private tickets.
A useful views of data so that it helps people.
Thank you very much for the help on this.
Are there any questions, colleagues? Supervisor maxwell.
>> [No audio]
>> I think it can be in that
often, departments get requested the same information or data
sets, so instead of individually
responding, they can be
proactive and put this on datasf
so that everyone has access to the information. I can give you an example.
The people who make maps in the
city often get requests for maps of the neighborhood in the city.
What they did was put it on
line way before datasets even
existed.
So they put it on their website.
Supervisor maxwell: great, thank you.
Supervisor mar: seeing no other questions, why don' t we open this up for public comment? Is there anyone who would like to speak?
please come forward .
M I n a web producer.
We are -- I am -- >> I
am a web producer.
This proposed legislation is the enormously exciting to me and the rest of my teen because what we tried to do with open
government data is for by a
public service, creating new
tools that the community can use. One thing that gets in the way
is the time it takes to access
to government data just because people are busy and just because
of the way public record requests work. It can be a pretty tedious process. The other thing that is really
exciting about this is the productivity factor.
Instead of us having to wonder what data sets are out there and
available, we actually have a central place where we can look
and see what is available to us instead of having to do
reporting to figure that out.
There are so many amazing new tools and technologies available to journalists a round crowd
sourcing and data visualization and napping. I believe that having an open, easily accessible platform just
allows us to fulfill our mission
of public service in a faster,
easier, who will weigh -- cooler way.
supervisor mar: if you would
like to speak, please wait over on this side.
>> find the chief technology
officer at a bay area law firm. A lot of our clients on
nonprofits and a lot of news organizations all over the area,
so we are excited to get our hands on the stated --
nonprofits and a lot of youth organizations all over the area, so we are excited to get our hands on this data.
If this process is set up,
people can use this information and do interesting things with
the information with our non- profit partners. We are really excited about it.
Most of our partners are
outside san francisco, but I
know this could become a national model.
we can push other cities to adopt it.
Supervisor mar: what is your organization? >> we are web application
developers.
Sort of like the neighborhood
improvement association, after-
school tutoring programs, so they already require this
information, but right now, it takes a long time to get it, and there is a lot of things they
would want to be able to do that they do not have access to. If they get some of this
information, it will help them deliver services but also advocate for certain --
supervisor mar: so I' m seeing that it is useful not just application developers but researchers and journalists and
the public as well.
I was in a meeting with health care advocates and organizers,
but I could see that it would be useful.
>> we are working on a mobile
app right now.
If we could get some of the
other large cities, we really
get a big picture of what we
should be doing and where we should be targeting our efforts, so we are really excited.
supervisor mar: thank you so much.
>> I' m proud to live in a city
that has an open date of policy.
I teach at stanford university .
i would like to point out the power of opening it up to also --
supervisor maxwell: could you move the microphone -- thank you.
>> I would like to point out how or opening up the platform for
allowing people to comment on data. Let me give you and a sample.
having reviews of books is much
more powerful than just knowing
what the folks far, so what I
see as a possibility for us is to have the people of san francisco actually make the
data that government provides even better, even clearer.
you have seen this on google nappes, for instance, where citizens change locations if they are wrong. They fix mistakes.
They create additional layers of
information, and you are seeing that at amazon were people
create data, which is useful for the rest of the world.
supervisor mar: thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak?
, I do customer service at craig' s list, though I am not speaking for the company. I have been working with open
government on multiple levels.
I use some of the more mundane
aspects of this every day light
using an application by phone to tell me when the next bus is
coming, which is a great blessing at times, but I' m stuck
on the notion that the move involves trying to talk to the rank and file of any government
agency.
The people on the front lines often know what is going on better than the people who run things, and if they can get
together and suggest things with a commitment from the boss to make things happen, that gets results.
That is being done right now in an accelerated way at veterans affairs.
It is being done similarly at
hhs, where they are making a move to change the whole culture in this direction.
It will government not only includes data, which can be pretty useful, but it also includes new ways of doing
things, which is pretty much good for everyone because we all remember coming up through the
levels and higher, learning new
stuff, and that can be applied to things beyond that.
these are my back of losses, and yes, the 1980' s called for
their glasses back. [Laughter]
Supervisor mar: is there anyone else who would like to speak?
Seeing none, public comment is closed. We have a couple of minor amendments.
without objection, the amendments are accepted.
Is there a motion on the ordinance as amended?
Any objection?
We will move this forward positively.
>> I want thank everybody for coming. I think this is going to be
great, and I really like the thought of people being able to
respond directly to the information because that is
really I think what has changed in media today is there is a lot
being put out there, but then people are correct and it almost instantly, and I think that is
what is making it alive and well.
Supervisor mar: and thank you for the great presentation. Could you please call item 3?
>> item 3, hearing on the findings and recommendations of the performance audit of the
alemany farmer'
s market , conducted by the budget and legislative analyst' s office.
Supervisor maxwell: many of you are supporters and customers of
the alemany farmer' s market, the first of its kind in california.
The market has a rich history and continues to be wildly popular. It is an incredible resource to the city. I called for this audit because I thought there was room for improvement in the product we are providing.
Being the only farmers market in san francisco that we the city
operate, I believe we have a special obligation to ensure that the market is the best it can be.
This report has identified some fairly easy fixes and some not so easy that we can make that should lead to dramatic
improvements in the operation of the market.
I want to thank the budget analysts for their exploration of these issues as well as the leadership of the real-estate department for being an active partner throughout the process.
I know that the department will
continue to work closely with us as we move forward.
I would like to ask the budget analyst to come up, and I
appreciate that they kind of
took me through this and we' re
very synched and thorough -- and
work -- and were very succint
and thorough.
>> good morning.
we will be presenting to you today some of the highlights from our performance audit of
the alemany farmer' s market and the real estate division in its capacity as operator of the market.
Our study focused on the effectiveness and efficiency of
the alemany farmer' s market and
was conducted in accordance with the yellow book standards. The study took place during the summer and fall of this year and
was initiated by a motion of the full board sponsored by supervisor maxwell.
The draft of our report before
revision on September 24, and the final report went to the full board on October 13.
the audit has four main focus
areas, including management of the market, current market finances, the government
structure of the market, and the market' s compliance with
applicable laws, regulations, and codes.
in the absence of a well-defined purpose for mission statement,
the alemany farmer' s market has not logically come under the
jurisdiction of a specific city agency. As a result, for your different departments have operated and managed the department over the last seven years. We found that the real estate division does not have a formal process for ensuring long-term
needs are sufficiently manage and finance. We also found that the farmer' s market needs a more effective
governance structure, including revised rules and regulations and the appointment of an advisory committee.
the alameda -- alemany farmers market has not consistently
complied with state and federal
codes, and we found this is due to inadequate training and tools.
Before getting into the specifics of the findings, I
overview of the farmer' s market.
the alemany farmers' market was
established in 1943, primarily
z>|as a means of providing local
farmers a way to sell excess
produce the other was would
have netted more federal regulations in world war ii.
In 1947, the market move from dubos avenue and market street
to its permanent home near the
intersection of highway 101 and 280. Of the approximate 20 certified farmers' markets in san
francisco,z one operated by the city.
The market has a long and successful history and is popular with local residents.
It is held every saturday, rain or shine. It is one of three markets operated by the real estate division. The division also operates the
alameda -- the alemany flea
Mine plaza gallery on mondays, thursdays, and fridays.
alemany farmers market as opposed to approximately 110
farmers, also known as the agricultural producers, and approximately 20 food and beverage vendors each week.
In fiscal year 2009-2010, the
expenses were aboutv~} $108,000,
and revenues came in at about $336,000.
Total expenses for both markets
operated at 100 alemany/h
boulevard were about $306,000,
and total revenues were about $700,000. The real estate division has a
total of about $425,000 in net
revenues for the two operations at this site, and this amount was transferred to the general fund.
Supervisor mar: can I just asked -- was that over several years? That is the average?
>> it has actually increased over the last few years.
?@{$425,000 WASgh just fiscal year 2009-2010.
In our review of market e
market does not have a mission or purpose statement and5 lacked managerial consistency.
the lack of it purpose for mission statement has prevented
the market from continuing to broader city-wide folds such as
eating and small business development in a healthy weight. There HASjLx been a lack of
stability in management. Responsibility for operating the
market has transferred to four departments, and the real estate division has had difficulty
w time manager for most of the last three years.
This lack of consistency has helped the market back8 from fully addressing ongoing
challenges such as developing an
ongoing security plan, which is arguably needed, as there has k been illegal dumping on the
property, and neighbors have complained4y about side shows on the property at night.
Second, there is a lack of parking and as a re@p) S of traffic congestion on the
market during peak market hours.
D'ythird, there is no facilities and maintenance plan, even
though, as mentioned
the infrastructure is old and deteriorated.
1m in our review of market
finances, we found that the farmer' s market and free-market ,q'd -- collected enough revenues to support enough
revenues and contributed enough
|to beat -- and he needed more than $400,000 each year to the city general fund, but therew] is inadequate planning to make sure there is sufficient investment in the market.
assessment of what is needed and what it will COSTvn
as mentioned, the market facilities are old and in need of repair.
>w~install routes need significant
repairs, as illustrated by thew" five that a piece of one of them fell off during the market day last year.
Also, the market HASpk} poor signage.
There is no perimeter fence to secure the property at night.
There is limited parking but potential TOsr expand supply of
parking two vacant public utilities com8vs lots across the street.
Additionally, there is no formal plan for,a increasing revenues for the market. Although the site is vacant much of the year, } the real estate division has not come up with additional uses for the property.
at best, the division\ them to use taximeters on the
property for a portion of the year.
In exchange, the agricultural commissioner waive the annual fee for 8 j$u$e market.
At this time, my colleague will discus { remaining findings.
>> good3y morning. In our review of the market
governance, we found that the market_ needs a more effective governance structure. Specifically, the existing
market*
not in full compliance with state and city administrative kicodes. The admission of farmers into the market, the admission of e
p& products, and the
removal of tests for l[Market.
the market also lacked a formal
structure fors_ farmer and vendor participation in the governance
of the market, a process for
dealing grievances, specifically if the
market MANAGERSgk~ for the real estate division, as well as a
disciplinary process farmers and vendors who violate market rules. For example, there is
process if a formal or vendor is take out of the market.
Additionally,y~ we found that food vendors are paying varying rates
ranging FROMbr $35 to $120 for the same small size.
This differs FROMyx)P* we found
with the city of santa monica,
which requires VENDORSk tpv@f
the stall fee.
The city they want to@I consider
fixed stall fees in|wjt &e%ei bidding for fees, which might be more equitable.
Another difference been found
monica and the city of san
francisco is that
is were chosen based on their rent proposal experience as w
as their business plan, while in santa monica, food vendors were chosen based on what bus%x
was located in the city or if the business used
locally grown
and organic foods, providedy environmental sustainability as well as offering a variety of products in the farmer' s market.
T8supervisor maxwell: before you go forward, wheny0w* sq'tion the scale, the variance in the amount people pay, the you talk
with the real estate division, and did [L#I they give you a reason for this?
>> it was based~f s proposal. Each vendor propose what they thought they could pay.
Super+p maxwell: so that is what you meant when you said bidding.
Pay this amount flows " and that is8~| what they would pay. >> right, and they would not
know what the next ~ vendor who had the same cell size was
paying, and that benefits be paid two or three times as much.
/.Ssupervisor maxwell: I' m going to ask
tell us what your reasoning was and what you think about this.C^d%ei thank you.
y >>%
finally, in our last section, which focused on compliance
with
regulations coast, we found that staff LGo+ejt)(Rq't training tools to ensure that the farmer' s market was being compliant with local regulations.
We also found that the farmer' s market has been inconsistent
RECORDm@~ of complying with state and local laws.
For example, the state department of food and agriculture and the county commissioner have cited the farmer' s market2 noncompliance on multiple
occasions within the past three years.
In8u addition, on a site visit in August, we found additional
potential violations ofj|| state and local laws.
N include farmers selling products not under siege of it, gos
not displaying certificates, farmers selling organic products not registered with the state,
as well as on six sampling and storage of food. We also found0 that agencies are
not able to inspect the farmer' s * )Q* as frequently as required by state law.
Finally, we also found that several required department of public health permits, which is likely due to a,j prohibitive cost. For example, the food vendors
pay more in PERMITsux fees for their one or two days per week at the farmer'
s market comparedh(E%ei to a restaurant operating full
time. L
in conclusion,c,u the budget and legislative analyst' s office would like to thank the management and staff OFZnz the real estate division and the environmental health section of the department of public health for all their hel would like to open up for any questions.
Supervisor maxwell:]T| your last comment that the vendors pay
more -- did you find out -- wastn~ there any reason -- why do they pay more?
>> cq}the fees are supposed to be
cost RECOVERYp[, and we found out
that the infrastructure for farmers market, they have to
pay(O a special event permit fee per quarter, including an application fee as well as an
inspection fee, and over the
full year, y it happens to be more
than the one-time payment for restaurant, and we are not sure why.
Supervisor maxwell:@<| all right, thank you.
Supervisor mar: did you want to invite john updike and amy
brown? Q
8>> -- supervisor maxwell: I just wanted them to finish their presentation. Are youKv both finished?
then yes, I would like to ask94
any -- amyf
brown.
F the city. I' m joined today by my
director in my market program manager, so if I get anything terribly| wrong, I will certainly invite them up to the podium as
well if we!Q~ get into specific questions I cannot answer. I would like to start by
thanking th his staff for the way in which
they worked with my staff and conducted this aud!Zs
we certainly appreciate the communication, the opportunity
to{m~ review and comment on the
report, and by and large, as you
will see at the back of6=y the report, we agreed with most of the recommendations and are already working on trying to f mplement many of them.
We do take great pride in our ~[F Jj
r(With the alemany farmer' s market, with the fact that it
is the oldest market,~z san francisco.
We do very much see our mission as connected with the goals x of san francisco with respect to healthy food and making sure that fresh produce is available
to all))~ people, all residents of
the city, which is why had a robust language out reach effort
at that MARKETBoz, while we have been a leader in the use of
electronic benefit TOKENSyi}, to
ensure that all people> have
access to fresh food, so we very
much look forward to trying tow encapsulate that in the mission
statement because we believe in passionately q dedicated to that. One of the first things we think is most important TOip address out of the recommendations is the
formation of thecac%q~, an advisory
committee -- formation of a|
cac, so-0?* *u)E that all our constituencies are represented in that. Some of the outbreak has
OCCURREDkf~ already, but we have more to do to try to come up8k~
with a proposal that people feel good about going forward.
once we do;o that, have confidence
that our -- unless you have specific questions --
supervisor
you are doing is fine,#| especially the executive summary.
It= face, well-defined mission statement.
&jI think you are going on the right track, so just continue. >>~
thank you, and if I missed something not need to address,
PLEASEh- just jump in.
We absolutely agree with what m}the budget analyst said about
the lack of stability here we
are very aware that thisq] was an operation that, despite its
importance in our view to the city, did boun(!T9 t f
are happy that we have been the stewards entrusted with it over the last t1q| years and look forward to growing with it and building of one in moving
forward in the future,u we like that we have been able to provide some stability.
We ACKNOWLEDGEat in the last three and a half years we have not accomplished everything we would like to, and we have had
"$v**UQj with staff turnover, for example, and things like that.
Committed to providing training
for the folks WEv|| have there. We feel like we have a good nucleus of a team, and we are
hopingl{ to see that stability in
terms of staffing, and again, continue to be a home for the
very important operation of the city.
We agree again WITHm&~ the advent code sections being updated. That is something we have been working on in partnership withm\q
dph.
We have been exchang:+ drafts back and forth.
we have a draft that we think is about ready to submit to the Iwboard.
There May be additional things you all will want
result of this, but we do have
the nucleus of a draft]O almost ready to submit to the board.
Gi} the facilities maintenance and revenue enhancement -- we have certainly submitted requests=| to the capital plan each year.
We have been successful in b q%9 **t money.
We were able to do a major remodel of the bathrooms, which +
were just horrible, when we got
the market back under real estate three and a half ye ago. We were able to secure money from the capital plan.
bathrooms, which turned out very well.
45the roof repair WORKSw is under
way right now.
WEkt have got folks out there
right now doing more
comprehensive roof repair there,
so we have tried to(I~ see capital funds.
We have to be just within the o general services agency for this request that move forward, and
once general|o~ services agency submits all their requests, we
have to compete with all general fund departments for the3rv(S@&e%ei
and limited fund salaries that are available. We are happy to be, more aggressive, to be more comprehensive in putting together a wish list.
i think THEIix cac can HELPb%
| -- I' m
also cognizant of the FACTwm that we need some help. We will keep that running wish LIe@
we will make it more robust, and we will advocate as much as we oe~can for it.
some of those decisions are outside our hands, unfortunately.
Ln}supervisor maxwell: have you
done an assessment of THEIh farmer' s market?
And a capital improvement assessment? '%
and then maybe programmatic, but have you done an assessment?
Kwa wish list is wishing, but these are small businesses. This~=q is something that brings in
revenue to the city, so it cannot just be a wish list.`h
it has to be means you need that will in france and improve the ability~" of the city to make
revenue and to give this service
TOgd its citizens, so it is not just about a wish list. So do you have that?
^c}with a lot of the things you are
talking about, I want to have timeline, a frame. When are you thinking about
having these things done so that we have'/ something to work on? What is your goal?
And when you work with other departments9? in a way that we can
o~b %e%ei
>> certainly, supervisor.
No, we have NOTy1 done a formal
engagement with someone from dtw
to do that FACILITYEi needs assessment. We have used our own knowledge
from running OTHERs_y facilities, from managing other facilities
to put together things LIc3 the bathrooms being in horrible condition.
We
beautification, like putting murals in there.
J2we just replaced the cited in front.
-- 3
signage in front.
we have8@y not commissioned a
formal facilities assessment, and that is subject to budgetary restrictions.
+x~supervisor maxwell: I am concerned that you only fix the
sinkhole only gets fixed when it becomes a problem.
;|if you have businesses, and you
know they are coming, kind of need to do a thing before we get there. That is my concern.
Front of things.
If we&(Wo say, why don' t we
allow you to keep so much money
for a WHILEbj -- well, we need to know what that is.
wywhether it is formal, whether
you spend $150,000 from dpw>?Y -- I am not saying that at all. I JUSTXx} hope that we can get in front of the obvious things.
>> WEsc addressed the simple problem as soon as possible.
-- sinkhole problem as soon as possible.
The roof, we got the funds in ]Y|the capital plan before it fell recently.
we had permission2c carry those funds forward because we had difficulty getting the contract in place> to do the work.
Now we have read and park -- rec
and park roofers o} working on that right now.
it is a challenging, it is not an issue of health only fixing 12ssomething once it breaks. This is the process we have to work with.
I understandq7r what you are asking for, and we will work with that.
With respect to ANa| timeframe, we
will flushes out further.
Again,.Q~ we want to do this in partnership with the cac.
At least for the next nine
$+months, here is what we thought
we could tackle, to work on the
recommendations FROMig} the budget analyst report. I would certainly welcome any input from all of you.
2dthe first thing -- because we
want their input -- we n to form the cac.
supervisor maxwell: do you have any hard copies?
>> yes, I{m{ do.
G
work on that has already begun. We project that could be in
place- year.
Once a cac is put together, we I
would return to the mission statement.
We have some STAFFm*x ideas, but
again, we want the input of cac.
We would6| formalize with them the
short and long term agenda for addressing these is*g\&e%ei
the st. Vacation is something that we have already been working on.
@dthe budget analysts report cited
issues with an ability to>b| secure the perimeter with
TRAFFICt/~ control, pedestrian safety, things like that.
one of THEr@x factor that contributes to that is there are
actually on vacated public streets running through the
market site -- Dn~ unva
cated Cl@%u*u @&e%ei the market
[ Public streets running through the market site.
We need to vacate the street
mbefore we do anything with a poor record, for example.
Setting aside THEdz cost for
that, we cannot do this for a street that has not BEENz vacated legally.
We' ve previously worked with z
dpt to get a traffic management plan. We did not have the1[ money to move forward with that.
But we will get that rfp ready to go1a out.
As part of vacating, we want to
do something MOREu'~ comprehensive
to deal with traffic management. we have been trying TOm negotiate
with puc to secure the use of
twoz adjacent vacant properties
on^& putnam street.
They severed from -- suffer from
SIMILARQsu issues, illegal dumping, and we would like to take
control of them and% additional parking for the
market, and in exchange,q maintain them and include them in the market site that we would manage.
We~m would welcome your assistance with that.
Qt}we already are working on an update of policies and
procedures with the new market \qmanager.
we have already reached out to
uc-@u}davis and uc-berkeley.
There are some relevant classes and city
contacts where we can refresh the training program for our staff.
|p|we have done best PRACTICESQy ,
research, if you will, through
the california association of{>} farmers' markets, through discussions with other markets. We will continue to draw0\ 4 %e%ei that.
We also had a productive relationship with the agriculturalh issioner, who is here today.
if you want to hear from him
will be here to ANSWERu_ questions.
this SHOWSy
these time periods, and into the future,Tfu which is something that you have to keep on doing.
we plan to do the first
y)Zretraining before the end of the calendar year.
Market, without any outstanding Jj
dph is slated] Return this saturday to the farmers' market. they were out there on the 16th.
^ violations found.
Food sampling was one ones. We have been trying to do
education with OURx? vendors.
We hope not to have any ofvo} those violations when staff returned.
the one thing in our control9
did involve educating and modifying them THEIRf behavior, provision of fresh water to the vendors. We have taken care of that. A
and again, capital plan. We are in the process right now and are getting ready to submit f?K next year' s capital plan.
We will be sure to submit a
r2w~ set of requests through that process.
Turning to the beginning of9 calendar year, continue to
engage the cac?D|, hopefully secure the approval of the street
vacation: bid down and avoid the traffic management plan, introduced the _ Uz the
admin code that addresses not ONLYlb{ the management of the market, but also the cac.
Complete the81~ update of the rules and regulations for farmers and
FOODAr} vendors.
We do have processes in place FORw(~ discipline and appeals.
That is not to say they are not outdated, but that will be a
part of continuing | our trading efforts, securing those capital plans.
Turning[_ to the second quarter of 2011, continue working with the cac, scope
out and bid out the perimetev+| fencing.
Then we can turn to what it will take to secure the site. 3
then prepare to implement | the
funded capital projects, what we are successful in obtaining money7 for, and continuing training. That is our short-term goals. We~g happy to come back and
report on longer-term goals as
we get a better senseh! of funding
in some of those things, moving
forward,9\
constituted and starts to weigh- {in.
supervisor mar: I had a j0e*p&e%ei for Ms. Brown.
In the accomplishments section, the farmer' s market is very0uz much a model of promoting fresh
fruits in a key area in Tj:
southeast part of san francisco.
I had a question\ -- you were the first to allow the use of food stamps
, other monetary ways to purchase at:8} fresh food.
We also have strong
PARTICIPATIONs women and children as well.
I had a question of HOWq coordinate with the city' s
overall TASKZm forces and how they
could pay closer attention to
that to serve4a as an example to other markets? Could you comment on that?
S wholesale produce
market sits on land that is z on real state jurisdiction.
We work closely!R with the nonprofit board.
4l
we have sought input and advice mcon it issues in the past related to the farmers' market.
Beyond THATxc~ -- I am not sure i can address the specifics.
>> john@d update -- updike.
!Pi am the liaison with dph.
K on a number of initiatives.
SHEk0x been helpful guide the issues that we have been trying
to address at alemany, and at other4uy farmers' markets.
We have a direct relationship on security and on the policy
issues
jf~supervisor maxwell: how many people do you have workingd| on the farmer' s markets?
?Cy>> the budget analyst did it excellent job of summarizing that ont)| page 7 of the report.
We have a chief manager for the market.
that person reports to my program manager.
s3zwe have three 1408s, although one | the positions is open right now.
We have had a public service
aid, APm| 9920, who has been helping we have a couple of people helping out with the traffic at alemany.
H?{we also have a custodian5 assigned to work out there.
Supervisor maxwell: how ~ many full-time people do you have altogether?
>> it would ~ be
four full time.
supervisor maxwell:z&y so
everything is full, you have four full-time people the farmer'
s markets, FLEAve
market, and un plaza.
R{>> correct.
and then others whoe[Z support --
supervisor maxwell: but now you have three.
^u}and your manager is new andl
has been here since --
>>0}~ June 12.
rd the prior manager took a promotional opportunity.
Supervisor maxwell: is it your
intention to fill the vacant position? >> yes.
We thought we obtained the mayor approvals office.
Our hr department informed us
that they had not yet had the yes button.
One of my jobs today is to call the budget analysts office and remind him we are still awaiting that approval.
Supervisor maxwell: ok, that is all I have.
Supervisor mar: thank you.
Should we open this up for public comment?
supervisor maxwell: I do want to thank you both, all of you,
again.
I feel your passion and commitment.
I just want you to know that everyone thinks that our farmers markets are extremely
viable to us, especially as we see a market starting in almost every neighborhood.
Even restaurants are helping out.
This one is a prime. I appreciate the fact that you
are looking at it again and read committing ourselves to make
sure that three years from now, we are not saying the same thing.
i do not want anyone having to
go through the same thing, especially the people and farmers who work there. >> certainly.
Thank you for your support on this. We hope to continue to have your patronage.
Supervisor maxwell: most definitely.
the agricultural commissioner?
>> good morning, supervisor maxwell.
Supervisor
maxwell: what is the general function of what you do?
>> in regards to the alemany farmer'
s market , I am the authority --
supervisor maxwell: do you work for the city?
>> I work for the city and county.
supervisor maxwell: so we have an agricultural commissioner. Did we have one before?
>> we had one up until March 2008.
He was here for seven months. Previous to that you had a commissioner up until 2004.
there was a vacancy from 2004 through 2007.
Supervisor maxwell: tell us about what you do.
>> I enforce codes and regulations when it comes to
food, pesticide use enforcement
laws, direct marketing, fruit
and vegetable quality control, nursery inspection, which and
measures -- weights and
weights and measures.
I certify products that are being exported from san francisco.
In this
case, they are being
produced in other counties and they are being exported from san
francisco to buyers and receivers all over.
Supervisor maxwell: give us an example.
The produce market --
>> we have one that receives
produce and from toledo, stennis loss. He packages the product.
Then he sends it off to .
We have to respect it and then issue a certificate that allows
that produce to be imported to
switzerland, france, where ever the receiver is.
Supervisor maxwell: do you deal
with safeway?
>> no, we do not.
Produce managers will tell us
that they have a shipment that they do not believe meets the minimum requirements.
We will then go and conduct an inspection.
If it does not meet the minimum
requirements, we will reject the
load and have it reconditioned to meet minimum standards.
Supervisor maxwell: so what do you do at the farmers' market?
>> we are required to inspect
those markets and ensure the
certified producers have there'
ier certificates posted, that
the market manager is complying with direct marketing laws.
Supervisor maxwell: that is all of them?
>> yes, all the certified farmers' markets that we get.
supervisor maxwell: farmers' markets in our city do not need to be certified?
>> if you are going to label
your market a certified farmers'
market, you must comply with direct marketing laws.
But you do not need to have a certified farmers' market.
But if you are not sought effort
-- certified, you cannot call yourself certified.
Supervisor maxwell: what does that mean? Is there a difference?
>> that is a conundrum, I guess.
Supervisor
maxwell: what does the customer get from being certified, what is the advantage?
>> the customer knows that the producer of the commodity they are purchasing was actually
produced by the person who is selling it.
That person is on a local or
regional basis, and they brought that product directly to the consumer.
We do not have non- certified markets, if you will.
That is not an experience we have, here in san francisco.
Supervisor maxwell: so all of our markets are certified?
>> yes, supervisor.
Supervisor maxwell: anything else you would like to add?
Most people never knew we had one.
Most people do not necessarily know what you do or how important you are to us.
that is why I kind of wanted to get some more information.
>> there are 58 counties in california.
Each county is required by law
to have an agriculture
commission, weights and measures.
some counties share a commissioner between the two.
We all essentially do the same
job, we have the same jurisdiction.
We have a california agriculture commissioner and cedars
association where we work
together to apply consistently uniformly all bylaws and
regulations from the agricultural code of
regulations and the businesses regulation code.
In almost every county, in each
county, the ch
commissioner is
assigned to look at the device.
Supervisor maxwell: parking meters? >> yes.
The scales that you see at the farmer' s market, that is sealed by staff.
They test the skills to make
sure that it is type-approved,
and then they will seal it so that the consumer knows that if he is paying for 1 pound, he is getting 1 pound.
That is part of my job.
I get that question all the
time, why do we have an ag commissioner of san francisco? >> I have been
i have been here since 2008, and I am glad that you
have an ag commissioner again. I am happy to be here. If you have any other information, please call me. I would be happy to speak with
you in regards to any other questions you might have.
Supervisor maxwell: thank you. Nice meeting you.
Public comment?
>> hi good morning, supervisor mar. i' m walter.
I mostly go to the flea market on sunday and I just wanted to say --
no farmers market does it better
makes me feel sad for the rest
no farmer'
s market does it have as good as you
alemany farmer' s market you are the best
you are the best
supervisor maxwell: any further public comment?
Good morning.
>> good morning, folks, supervisors. I want to thank the three of you for allowing us to be here.
a few things concern me.
Most of it is behind us, and I hope it is behind us.
One of the more frontal issues
that I see is in the winter,
when there is a rainy season and
there are empty stalls,
certainly, enough to accommodate
other food vendors, it seems no
one is talking about how we can
protect our goods, in addition
to providing a service for the
vendors that come, the customers that come in the winter.
The winter months can be quite harsh.
without any protection, it does not work out as well.
Of course, the summer months, as
I indicated, there isavailable when it is not raining.
That is one of the issues that I wanted to bring. There is another issue that I am
not quite clear on, and necessarily does not fall under the department of real estate
but dph, and that is the fees
for something such as selling coffee.
I was up there with one of
people -- she was dating some things that I was doing.
If I was selling coffee, I would
have to pay an additional fee
apart from what I have to pay to sell pastries and bread.
this is with dph, not the department of real estate. I do not know about that. If there is some information
that could be passed on to the
food vendors, that would be good. Some of these things seem sketchy.
I would also like the department
of real estate to lend an ear to what the issues are for some of
the vendors, even some of the farmers.
This meeting was short notice, so I am sure there are others who wanted to say something.
Mainly concerned with some of the things that I see the need to be addressed.
if there are any questions for me, I would be glad to answer.
Supervisor maxwell: would you be willing to help with the cac?
>> indeed.
What ever I can help, I have
made it known, I am willing to. Alemany farmer' s market is by
far the best farmers market in the city.
There are a lot of things in other markets, but in terms of
oowhat the people want, what the
people feel comfortable with,
family issues, those kinds of aspects, I think this is the best in the city.
What ever I can do to help in that cause, I am willing to.
Supervisor maxwell: what about advertisement?
You mentioned the department did some more advertisement.
>> if they have done it, I am not aware of it.
I will say this.
I have noticed the new sign.
i was driving one morning and I saw it.
I do not know about the advertisement as a whole.
Supervisor maxwell: they will continue to do more of that, hopefully. Do you think that would be helpful?
>> yes, anything to remind people that there is a farmer' s market on saturday.
there are a lot of markets that
have cropped up since the inception of alemany.
Sometimes, we need to be reminded of things.
Ford motors, they have been around since before we were
born, but we still see advertisements.
i do not think it is a good idea
to allow it to lay and reminisce.
We need to do some advertising and remind the people.
Thank you.
>> my name is body.
I provide greek food.
I have a concession at the
tuesday night
various locations.
Last
year, I applied to get one of the spots at alemany.
I was here last year complaining bitterly that my business plan received day
a zero.
Since then, we have done tons
of wine and art festivals.
We have been invited to the north street festival, union festival. I just want to make you aware
that when I resubmit my
proposal, I want to give a copy to you for my participation in
alameda -- alemany.
As a side bar, the health department.
Yes, they are overburdened, like
everyone else, but in the year and a half that I have been in part of the city, no one has
come to inspect me, not once.
The firemen have been there three times. They were very nice.
as far as the conditions of food
vendors at alemany market, deplorable is the way I would characterize it.
It is clear when you go through the county' s what the standards are for health.
You are supposed to have clean
water with soap, rinse water, and water to sanitize.
I only saw one stall that had those. I only saw one person wearing gloves.
Of all the festival that we have
done, when the health inspectors
show up, they shut people down because that is just not the
right way to do things. the licenses that people have to
take -- you need to take a food safety course. I took it and passed. It is not difficult.
Basically, you want to treat the public the way you treat your family and friends. Make sure you do not sit in anybody. Most of the festival' s we have done, a health inspector has been our first customer.
Many have taken pictures of our set up for trading purposes.
I would like to offer my
services to the vendors down
there to comply with state and county and city regulations.
As far as the nutrition programs that we are talking about.
in my santa rosa market, we are
involved in reaching out to
schools, trying to bring slow food to the public.
Show them that this is what you need to do to be healthy. You need your fruits, vegetables, meats.
Everything that we do is local, sustainable, and organic.
it does not always need to be organic but it should be local and sustainable.
That is pretty much our mission statement.
Supervisor maxwell: thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to speak?
>> my name is john.
I am an organic mushroom farmer.
My family has been with the farmers' market -- I have been at the farmers' market all my life. I am just here to thank everybody.
The real-estate office as well
as your concerns with the farmers' market.
Just the importance that it is,
not only to the city, but to my family. So thank you.
Supervisor maxwell: ok, let' s close public comment.
I would like to ask Ms. Brown to come back up.
Public comment is closed.
>> I fail to address something that you asked me.
That was how we went about using
the competitive rfp process.
Because there were not specific requirements the way there are
in 9a for the farmers'
stalls,
we opted to do it under chapter
23 which encourages a
competitive process, competitive
selection for agreements on permitting city property. We went with that type of
process to put out requests for
proposals, rank them according to the criteria that the budget
analyst highlighted for you, and with respect to whether one vendor is paying more to one
next to them, we determined it was better to allow the market
to determine that both because
of chapter 23' s encouragement of
that as a policy, but also, in
our view, we wanted to have a robust offering their. We realize someone who sells cups of coffee will not make as
much as someone who sells
enchiladas or some of the more
robust -- some people are buying lunch there, taking things home
with them in greater quantity.
But we want to make sure that a
coffee vendor, somebody who sold
patrice -- pastries, could also be there. We decided to let them tell us what' s they thought they could pay based on what they anticipated their business would
make, basically allow the market to set those fees.
If it is the direction of the board, we are happy to consider a flat rate.
I would suggest that we May want
to consider different tiers for
different types of offenders, as I suggested.
--
vendors, as I suggested.
We have had a few vendors decide
they cannot do business there and they left.
We do not necessarily think that is a bad thing.
We still have a robust offering their.
--
-- there.
we did not move to replace those who left because we still felt like we had a robust offering.
We did not feel like we needed to rush out and get more people there.
i have one more point. That is with respect to the use
of the stalls in the winter months. Please correct me if I am wrong,
but I believe one of the things
we have been told from an enforcement perspective, that we
have to separate the non- certified farmers'
selling their products from the certified farmers' .
.
That is part of why we located
the food and beverage vendors to where they are now. I do not know if we could do
that without some additional break between them and the farmers.
Supervisor maxwell: so certified farmers' have to be segregated from the food vendors?
>> and any other type of vendor.
>> in the market rules, there
has to be a boundary between
certified agricultural and non- certified products.
That is why it needs to be separated.
Supervisor maxwell: what if you are not a farmer?
What if you are selling popcorn?
>> yes, that is a non-certified
product, so it is separated from the agricultural part of the market.
You May be able to address that
in the rules somehow --
I understood
the gentleman to
say that if it is raining in the
winter, you could use astall.
This is in the certified agricultural part of the market, you cannot do that.
Supervisor maxwell: but if it is not, you could.
Ok.
Khnum so what we need to do is
figure out if those are
certified vendor -- ok, so what
we need to do is figure out if
those certified vond
endors are coming.
>> [Unintelligible]
Supervisor maxwell: it might be confusing for them while
-- >> that is what I mean.
Once we set it up, it would be
difficult to change [Inaudible]
They would be out of compliance if they allowed a non-certified to go into a certified part.
Supervisor maxwell: but if you
have an idea of who you serve,
who is certified and who is
not, perhaps you could already have that boundary.
Sometimes the other people do not come who are not certified.
Are all the agricultural products certified?
That means, anybody who' s sells
agricultural product -- who sells agricultural product in our market is certified.
>> in the certified markets.
Supervisor maxwell: so since
ours is that, all are certified.
Thank you.
>> we had actual
beencited for
that, -- been cited for that,
having non-food vendors next to certified stalls.
because we use of fixed stalls,
it would have taken a lot of stalls out of use in order to
achieve that required separation. That is why we cannot do that on the spot.
I understand, I am sympathetic. I know the wind can be
challenging, but our
understanding, it is a state requirement. Because we had been cited earlier, we are vigilant on making sure that we comply with it.
Supervisor maxwell: I have
another question for you be.
Regarding fees, you have access to what is going on in the
market.
Some of the markets that are mentioned in the report have
flat fees, from my understanding, and they managed to do ok.
My concern is, do all the coffee vendors pay the same amount?
Is there
a staggered fee in the folks that sell pastries and coffee?
>> I am sure there is not. We allow the markets to determine that.
We took their bids. What they thought they could pay, to be the fees that they paid. we did not do any standardization.
Supervisor maxwell: and you
based that on what you all thought was best. Is that what is happening in
other markets, is that just what san francisco does?
>> we work closely with the rec
and park department in many of their offerings. This is a constant challenge,
rate setting.
i think we share the velocity of allowing the market to speak. The intent was to create a market floor that we thought was
reasonable, and then individual vendors could decide, I could bit more than that because this
is my anticipated share of the market.
It was always set as a floor.
i think maybe what the director is getting at is maybe there is
a possibility for a tiered system that would recognize the difference of what they are
selling, the likely profit margins they May have.
I think we can move to that system in 2011 in our next bid call.
Supervisor maxwell: I guess you
will discuss it with your cac .
>> that is right. I would also like to state court
made it with rec and parks.
it can be confusing for vendors who go to the market but are also tried to get opportunities
where rec/park is offering them.
Supervisor maxwell: through the
chair -- when of the dominan
one of the gentleman
-- with a black care --
when you are going from market
to market, are you finding that
ours is set up in any way like other ones in other cities?
>> no, it is actually confusing and pretty different.
There are two things.
There are three tiers of fees.
It depends on the size of your stall.
you have your farmers who pay the lowest fee. Then you have your food vendors who usually [Inaudible]
Everybody pays the samefee per stall.
As far as coffee -- the profit margins on food, they are pretty much the same across the board.
[No audio]
Then you should not be in the business.
[Inaudible]
Not flexible. There might be rainy day
specials in some markets [Inaudible]
Maybe there is inclement weather. There is a set fee.
My bid was $100 [No audio]
That begs the question why.
Supervisor maxwell: there might be the balance of who and what -- I do not want to get into that.
>> there is a board that usually
meets in each market, and they
decide -- [No audio]
Try to keep a balance between
citrus [No audio]
do not ruined somebody' s livelihood.
Supervisor maxwell: thank you.
I do have a question for you. Could you come up?
supervisor mar: could you state your name again?
>> john akiens.
Supervisor maxwell: you
mentioned the rainy day, being
able to -- understanding that we need to have that separation.
One of the issues, when they
moved the food vendors, that was huge.
Do you have a better understanding, is this what you have found to be the case?
Has someone mentioned this to you before?
>> yes, I have an understanding
based on what was stated.
For example, -- first of all, i did not hear what the space was
between the certified and non-
certified farmers, food vendors.
If it is 20 feet, and the
distance of an empty stall is 20
feet, then it seems to me that is the separation, so if there
are 10 stalls on the other side that are empty, or if there is
only one farmer in those stalls, can that one farmer not be moved
closer to the other certified farmers' so you still have the other side available for the
food vendors?
If we are talking about numbers
and you have 12 empty stalls
because of the rainy season, and farmers do not come all year round -- so it seems like there
could be some accommodation.
If that is the case, I do not understand why there cannot be an accommodation.
Supervisor maxwell: how soon in advance how do you have to notify people that you are going to be there, not going to be there?
>> in terms of the food vendors not showing up, if you are not
going to be there that day, the
protocol is to call that morning and leave a message on
the machine, or if you can get a hold of someone in the office.
supervisor maxwell: so it is
basically within 12 hours or less.
>> as I said, the thing that concerns me in raising this
question is, when you look at the rainy season, there are
quite a few empty stalls.
Many farmers do not come during that time.
i am still not sure what that space will be.
Supervisor maxwell: I will ask. Thank you. Yes?
>> supervisors, if I May comment o
for clarification purposes.
when you speak about distances
between the agricultural certified market portion and
non-certified, those boundaries
are drawn up and submitted for
the certificate, when they apply for renewal.
Supervisor maxwell: submitted when who applies? The market?
>> yes.
When alemany applied for their
renewal, they submit a boundary.
In the case of alemany, I have not looked at that map.
I am sorry, I cannot tell you what the boundaries are.
But there is a boundary that
identifies agricultural certified and non-certified.
Supervisor maxwell: thank you.
Ms. Brown?
Yes, another question. have you looked at the boundary
lately, has it changed --
>> if I May. I think we have relatively simple solution.
In our next some middle for
application, that we provide a seasonal boundaries so that we
have a winter season and summer season boundary. that would give us the
flexibility to assign certain
spaces for non-certified uses when we know we are going to have those vacancies, so we can be in compliance.
We can work with the agricultural commissioner. I think there is a solution we can work to word
ward.
supervisor maxwell: ok, thank you. I would like to continue this.
I want to ask our real estate
department -- I want to have day
a check-in -- hopefully, they have a number of items that they would like to have completed or are working to complete by December 31.
I would ask that maybe the
meeting before, if they could
come back in and check in with
us to let us know where you are. we will have a talk.
I will meet with ed lee and ed harrison on the parcels that you are talking about that could help us with parking.
Supervisor mar: I just want to
thank Ms. Brown and Mr. Updike
for being here, also a time line for setting up the cac.
I feel strongly committed the- based people should be at on
that committee in addition to small farmers.
I know the history of the farmer' s market is a grass-roots effort. It is challenging for us to have a people' s farmers market.
also for small farmers to have a
chance versus the big grocery
industry, who was opposing this.
I hope that comes from the cac and this remains the people' s farmers market.
Supervisor maxwell: in discussing the cac, they plan to
have farmers and people who live
around the area, maybe beyond.
It needs to be bigger than nine.
This is a huge city, historical place, people really love and are dedicated to farmers' markets.
It will probably be bigger than what we talked about.
We definitely need people who live around, maybe beyond.
thank you very much.
We will talk again at our continued meeting.
Supervisor mar: we are
continuing this item until -- what was the date?
To the call of the chair. We will make sure it happens.
ms.
Stokes are there any other items before us?
Supervisor mar: with no other item before us, the meeting is adjourned.
